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Is it moral to take a federal grant?

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Is it moral to take a federal grant?
« on: May 07, 2016, 01:40:24 AM »
 

Galen Ross

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Is it moral to take a federal grant? After all, you did not earn that money through voluntary interaction. Some people argue that it's justified, as you are only taking back what was stolen from you in the first place. If that's the case, what about public school teachers? By working for the government and receiving payment, are THEY merely taking back what was stolen from them? What about police officers?

I have my own thoughts own this topic, but I'd love to hear yours, for another perspective!
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson
 

Re: Is it moral to take a federal grant?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2016, 11:38:01 AM »
 

Magnaniman

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Taken to its logical conclusion, I think this discussion ends up in Saw (the movie) territory.  Is it moral to use public roads?  Is it moral to go for a walk in a national park?  Is it moral to kill someone who is only trying to imprison you?  Is it moral for a cheetah to hunt a gazelle?  It's difficult, I think, to discuss this without defining morality.

I believe that survival is the only true morality.  Anything with a goal beyond that is meaningless rhetoric formerly practiced by an extinct culture.  A lot of people get offended by this idea, thinking that it justifies any manner of awful thing.  However, the fact is that we are most likely to survive, individually and as a species, when we are self-sufficient, aware and knowledgeable of our surroundings, and on good terms with everyone we meet.  "Enlightened self interest" is the term for that.

So, is it moral to receive stolen money from this broken system in the interest of improving your situation with the goal of making yourself less dependent upon that system?  Yes, I believe it is morally justifiable.  Get it while it's still hot.
 

Re: Is it moral to take a federal grant?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2016, 06:25:12 PM »
 

AndrewG

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I really should have chosen the username HalfWit, Or Simpleton. Most of this shit is so far above my mentality. Maybe it's the fluoride.

Every cent you can get from them to survive better is one cent less they have to bomb a hospital half way around the world. One cent closer to their inevitable collapse.
Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium
 

Re: Is it moral to take a federal grant?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2016, 07:40:51 PM »
 

Adam Kokesh

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"Every cent you can get from them to survive better is one cent less they have to bomb a hospital half way around the world. One cent closer to their inevitable collapse."
THIS! If you are not violating the NAP or encouraging unethical behavior in taking the money, then do it.
Just read the book.
 

Re: Is it moral to take a federal grant?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2016, 11:25:51 AM »
 

Mike26

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But doesn't that add to the "demand" for more taxes? Or in other words, we are demanding the gunmen steal more money to pay for not just their bombs to send into hospitals around the world, but also to pay us for whatever we got them to agree to pay.

Is it moral for me to rob my neighbors houses so I can pay to build a playground in the neighborhood? Nope. What if I hired some thugs to rob the neighborhood and they only get a cut of the action so I could still build the playground? Still immoral. Why is doing it through the government any different?

As for morality being tied to survival: I fundamentally disagree. We are meant to Thrive, not merely survive. Survival implies a struggle to exist or continuing to exist. But through a life of love, or as Adam put in in his book, happiness, we can then live freely. Freely living isn't simply surviving, it's thriving.
 

Re: Is it moral to take a federal grant?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2016, 05:26:24 PM »
 

AndrewG

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But doesn't that add to the "demand" for more taxes? Or in other words, we are demanding the gunmen steal more money to pay for not just their bombs to send into hospitals around the world, but also to pay us for whatever we got them to agree to pay.

Is it moral for me to rob my neighbors houses so I can pay to build a playground in the neighborhood? Nope. What if I hired some thugs to rob the neighborhood and they only get a cut of the action so I could still build the playground? Still immoral. Why is doing it through the government any different?

As for morality being tied to survival: I fundamentally disagree. We are meant to Thrive, not merely survive. Survival implies a struggle to exist or continuing to exist. But through a life of love, or as Adam put in in his book, happiness, we can then live freely. Freely living isn't simply surviving, it's thriving.
Let's pretend that your taking a grant directly translated into a tax increase. It will eventually get to the point where people will have had enough. Some of us have found ways that no matter how many grants are given, it is zero impact on our lives. Besides, they're going to do whatever they're going to do anyway. That is to say, they will take as much as they need to without regard to anyone's well being. I have a feeling income taxes are more of a suppressant of the everyday man than a a financial need. They get all of their money from importing smack from Afghanistan, selling water to aliens, whatever. I understand your moral dilemma, but you may actually be helping to crash the system, thus liberating the people trapped within it right now.
Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium